Entire order book gone on MtGox? : Bitcoin

Motion in the mtgox order book [x-post /r/bitcoin]

Motion in the mtgox order book [x-post /bitcoin] submitted by -Mahn to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

Analysis of the leaked MTGOX database

Please excuse my poor English. But I know you will get what I try to express.
So one of the friends named HTCFOX just released his analysis of leaked MT database. https://www.dropbox.com/s/i8gx1tutrww9ydx/9CX5%25ZL9X%28922Z7~%251OV8%7BM.jpg He points out the following things which I think every victim of MTGOX should care with:
  1. On May 19th 2011, MT.GOX’s parent company Tibanne registered a company in HONKONG, No. is 1603550. That company in HONKONG seems to have done nothing but in the leaked database a user ID TIBANNE_LIMITED_HK is created. This user is recorded first on Aug. 27th 2011 and it seems to own a quite high privilege. To be specific, the analysis by HTCFOX shows that it can trade without any processing fee. This user traded totally 2.8M BTC and 350M USD till the shutdown of MT.GOX. Especially, HTCFOX figured out that the initial trade by that user happened at Aug 27th 2011 7:48. It bought 1BTC with USD and then at the same time it sold 1 BTC to JPY. All the two trades had no processing fee. HTCFOX calls everybody to share the speculation from this result.
  2. The privilege user, TIBANNE_LIMITED_HK operated in the same way till 2013. From March 2013 the name of that user has been changed to THK. The most suspicious part is, from March 2013, which was thought to be the start of 2013’s Bitcoin bullish, this user only did SELL… Though no much deeper analysis, HTCFOX simply doubts MT.GOX did some bad insider trade and lost quite a lot of BTC/FIAT.
If the leaked database is consistent, including HTCFOX, I think everyone got goxxed should feel very sick with it.
submitted by yan_bk to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks

Hey guys.
Merry Xmas !
I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively.
The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow.
I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise.
*The origin of your crypto wealth
*Your background (residence, citizenship and probity)
These two aspects must be documented in-depth.
How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit.
1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start.
Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice.
2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand.
Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier.
The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous.
The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here:
*proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early.
*story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day.
*micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning.
*signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ?
*ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow.
The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow:
*Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig.
*Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful.
*Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened.
*Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet.
*Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time.
The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me.
The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative.
The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point.
Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria:
*Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk
*AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted
*Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises...
*Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me.
First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards.
For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t.
EU tricks
Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible.
Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand.
Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really.
Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI
Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way.
Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids?
Dubaï
  1. Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
  2. Spend one day every 6 month there
  3. ???
  4. Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen.
The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains).
The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again.
Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly.
“Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out.
The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;)
What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight.
The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard.
Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp,
The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny.
Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts.
Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks.
Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier)
Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around.
Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary.
Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately.
The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused.
Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them!
The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax.
The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million.
Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction.
Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
submitted by Swissprivatebanker to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Is this dump caused by Roger Ver, Jihan Wu and CSW?

Roger Ver apparently has 300,000 Bitcoins or 300,000 BTC worth of Crypto or maybe a but less if he spent it on some things.
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2015141.20) , Craig Wright apparently stole 1M Bitcoins from his previous business partner where they both mined 1M Bitcoins together in 2013. (https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/27/bitcoin-creator-craig-wright-accused-of-stealing-cryptocurrency-from-colleague.html).
Jihan Wu (CEO Bitmain) also probably has and is with Roger Ver on BCHABC vs. CSW with BCHSV.
In order to fund their hash war, they are dumping their crypto to buy hash power.
Is this what happens and are these the 3 biggest whales in crypto? Then they can control the market however they want, since it only takes 35,000 Bitcoin to move the price by 10%. https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/books/USD
Edit: Ok, so CSW probably only has a few thousand bitcoins, since most of the addresses he claims to own are verified Mtgox addresses. https://blog.wizsec.jp/2018/02/kleiman-v-craig-wright-bitcoins.html?m=1
submitted by galan77 to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

The $8 Million Chart We Should All Be Watching

The $8 Million Chart We Should All Be Watching submitted by hazekBTC to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

We're approaching the next Goxening, and this one will be even more brutal

I was around to witness the 2013 boom. The hype and the glory. The whole bubble was fraud. MtGox made up US dollars on their account books and used them to purchase BTC. The great thing about the BTC is that the transactions were not reversible, leaving the thieves at MtGox with a glut of coins that later were observed moving all over the blockchain in subsequent years.
I suspect the same is happening with tether USD, but it has got to be an order of magnitude worse. Think about it. Tether has convinced people not only on their exchange, but exchanges all over the world, to accept tether as USD. Whoever is behind tether can easily use their magic ever inflating tether dollars to remove Bitcoins or other cryptocurrencies from exchanges. Even after Bitfinex or Tether falls, whoever is issuing this garbage gets to keep whatever coins they manage to expropriate because the transactions are irreversible. MtGox showed that this scam is highly effective. All it requires is for people to believe that the money used to buy the Bitcoin is real. Caveat emptor.
submitted by coinmarketfap to btc [link] [comments]

Suspicious mtgox activity? Dozens or hundreds of 50 BTC trades per minute, site seems overloaded and unresponsive?

Suspicious mtgox activity? Dozens or hundreds of 50 BTC trades per minute, site seems overloaded and unresponsive? submitted by l1ghtning to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Bitcoin gets another day in court- I had to testify for 30 minutes

I invested in Bitcoin in June of 2012 and I've done pretty well since then. Today I was posting bond for a friend of mine who was booked on a drug-related charge and I sold some BTC to cover the bond. I had to produce statements from MtGox in order to show how I obtained the money. I was grilled by the prosecution for about 30 minutes regarding Bitcoin. The prosecution had looked up some stuff in Bitcoin and they were trying to argue that I might have obtained the money by illegitimate means (i.e. laundering money), but their arguments were dismissed pretty quickly by the judge. Mind you that pretty much nobody in the court room, including the defense, had any idea what Bitcoin was when we started.
Some of the questions I was asked by the prosecution: 1. Is it true that Bitcoin is not regulated by any state? 2. You are aware that MtGox is not a registered money transmitter? 3. Bitcoin is not a real currency in the sense you can't use it in Wal-Mart, is that correct? 4. Your MtGox account is not an investment account, such as a traditional mutual fund, stock or options, correct? 5. Is it true that Bitcoin is not the official legal tender of any country or jurisdiction? 6. Is it your understanding that Bitcoin is not regulated by FinCEN? 7. Do you realize gains from the rise or fall of the current Bitcoin price? 8. Do you know how Bitcoin mining works? 9. Do you mine Bitcoins? (there are many other questions in the span of 30 minutes, but these were the ones that stood out)
My answers: 1. Yes, it's a decentralized currency so there is no country or state that controls it. 2. Objection by defense and sustained. 3. Is that relevant? (the judge said that he's going to determine if it's relevant and I should just answer the question) ... Yes, you can't use it in Wal-Mart. It's not a traditional currency in that sense. 4. It's not a traditional investment account, but it's no different from investing in currency. (the judge and the prosecution went back and forth here about how one can invest in DollaYen, DollaEuro and they agreed that it's an investment) 5. Objection by the defense (asked and answered) and sustained. 6. Yes. Objection by the defense, but it was overruled and I had already answered the question. 7. Yes. It works just like any other investment: you buy in at a certain price and you sell at a different price. If I have profit, then that's a capital gain. 8. Yes. 9. No.
Statements by the prosecution (most of them dismissed by the judge): 1. Bitcoin is used for money laundering and other illegal activities. 2. Bitcoin is not a real currency. He went on about how it's not regulated, it's not real currency and it's used for illegal activities such as money laundering, but the judge dismissed it saying that it's irrelevant. They also tried to suggest that money obtained from Bitcoin is not traceable, but the judge agreed with the defense that the statements from MtGox are sufficient to prove where the money came from. The judge also made statements that this seems to be in line with any other investment and it should be accepted as a legal source for the bond.
Closing statement from the defense (this was the best part): "Some people like to keep their money in the bank, some keep it under the mattress and some invest it in geeky stuff like Bitcoin. (the whole courtroom, including the judge, erupted in laughter) However, that's not grounds for rejecting the bond. It is entirely reasonable that the witness, who is x-years-old, not married, has no children, has no mortgage and makes x amount of money per year is capable of producing the bond amount."
All and all, it was pretty fun to be up there and testify in defense of both my friend and Bitcoin. I'll try to get the court transcripts and post them up here, it was pretty entertaining to see the prosecution struggle with Bitcoin.
submitted by btcthinker to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

I just launched a new exchange for Gox BTC <=> Real BTC!

Heya!
https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/ has been re-purposed (I made it two years ago originally as a way to buy bitcoins on mtgox with dwolla!) to a full-fledged "Gox" BTC to "Real" BTC exchange!
It works simply enough.. you deposit "Gox" BTC to the "Gox" address on your account (internal transfers of BTC within mtgox still work) and/or regular BTC to your "Real" BTC address. You can then place bids and asks (there's a 2% fee on all trades) and then withdraw your "Real" or "Gox" BTC (only to a mtgox address will work for "Gox" BTC!). Withdrawals are all manually processed once per day by me around 11pm, for SAFETY!
Anyway, it really works.. already today there have been 11 completed trades it looks like, and hopefully you can trust me. I'm Josh Jones, founder of DreamHost.com, the Los Angeles Bitcoin Meetup, ChunkHost, BitMadness.com, and 310-570-COIN (which I just switched off of the mtgox price)!
Please check it out and lemme know what you think!
josh!
EDIT: Just a note that the order book and trade history (as a json feed at https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/trades.php) are now live and public on the front page!
submitted by zhoujianfu to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the person in charge of Bitfinex's OTC trading desk (HOWTO: SFYL v2.5.6)

I logged into bitfinex the other day to check on my altcoin shorts and was greeted with a lovely new tab at the top of the website about an OTC market. Interested, I clicked in and...well, the SFYL popcorn will be buttery.
Text from the Bitfinex website:
Recently, many Bitfinex users Tether USDT Tokens Bitfinex internal managers have expressed interest in the ability to make larger trades offload worthless tokens and cash out directly with a counterparty suckers without having to go through the public order books by laundering through our offshore tulips exchange.
To make that possible, Bitfinex is pleased to offer a new Over The Counter (OTC) trading desk. Through our OTC desk, customers suckers will be able to access digital currency liquidity buy our worthless beanie babies without affecting the exchange market price elaborate automated wash-sale/money laundering operation.
Important:
OTC trades incur a fee of 0.100% on both sides. Bitfinex makes more money
OTC is for large orders only (100k USD notional minimum) We need large orders so we can create more useless USDT tokens to artificially inflate the price of bitcoin
Ready to begin OTC trading? Email [email protected] and we will configure your account today.
It got interesting here
Introduction to Bill Brindise
Heading up our desk laundering operation is Bill Brindise, the former Chief Trading Officer of DigitalX. He brings with him claims over three years of digital currency MtGox trading experience and contacts throughout the industry such as Roger Ver. Before trading digital currencies worthless energy tokens, Bill spent 18 years claims to have spent time trading and brokering energies and metals on the NYMEX floor and in the OTC pink-sheet (read: wolf of wall stree) markets. With over~~ 20 years of trading and sales experience~~ 10 years of Poker experience on Full Tilt, Bill is the ideal candidate to lead our OTC desk and support future innovation at Bitfinex.
Ladies and Gentleman, I present to you Bill Brindise.
I mean, nevermind that as his role in the capacity of a C-level exec, his LinkedIn mentions absolutely nothing about his actual trading experience. Okay, but if he has grown a company $20MM or worked as a lead trader for major NYC financial firms then surely his name has been in the news at some point. Hmmm. We must go deeper. Turns out he's worked at other commodity trade groups, let's check out his experience shall we? Turns out everything he has original said about himself is the same as what he is saying about himself now. Or in otherwords, people never lie on their resumes! .....whoops
Bill Brindise joins as an Energy Trader in the Commodities Group. He previously worked at BES Capital and SHK Management as Head Energy Trader.
Two ways to take for us to take advantage of the OTC desk you
To get started, please contact [email protected] and we will get you set up SFYL your buttcoin tokens right away.
submitted by bluejeanbetty to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

My view for the worst, better, best case scenario

Even with current straight bankruptcy (hasan) trustee can address the court based on finance analysis and cuncil for new evaluations of intangible assets(btc) due to price violity and significant asset value increase after inital btc value evaluation, what if approved, with current straight bankrupty btc+forks must be sold to pay all creditors with updated and new evaluated claims. On another hand, only if CR and plan is approved, these btc and forks can be distributed unexchanged (unliquidated) to the creditors.
All asset whatever tangible or not is liquidated only to the certain point to get liquid asset (funds) to pay all creditors. When that is done, bankruptcy is completed and court/trustee authority stops. Any remaining asset remain as asset what company can use to resume busines or whatever they choose. Ordinary, in bankruptcy liquidation, all asset in full had to be liquidated, because creditors claims are much higher then company assets worth. Its liqidated in full only if asset can't be sold partialy and there is no other assets to be liquidated. However, in MtGox bankruptcy things has changed, untangible asset are now worth much more then total of approved creditors claims and if claims stays with current evaluation, asset will be liquidated only to the funds worth what equal all total approved creditor claims, nothing more! Update: under bankruptcy (hasan) corporation has to be dissolved what after distribution of all creditors has been made and Court bankruptcy termination order , dissolution esentualy cause all remaining asset liquidation and surplus sent to the shareholders - Tibanne and then Mark Karpeles.
Worst case scenario: The Court settle all creditors claim with current evaluated btc (483$) +fiat+interst coverted and paid as JPY where only enough intangible assets (btc) are liquidated (sold) to settle all creditors (what are almost already done), what makes bunkruptcy completed and reamining 165k btc and forks remain as Mtgox intangible asset where they can do whatever they want, liquidate and pay dividends, trade with btc, invest in other projects etc (bankruptcy is over, no obligation or liabilities to MtGox creditors). (Unfortunetly, in my opinion, this will most likely be the case. Read edit at the end of the OP).
Update: under bankruptcy (hasan) corporation has to be dissolved what after distribution of all creditors has been made and Court bankruptcy termination order , dissolution esentualy cause all remaining asset liquidation and surplus sent to the shareholders - Tibanne and then Mark Karpeles.
Better scenario: If some miracle (never) happens the Court accept new btc evaluation, but then these to be paid as JPY, all (or better to say) suficient remaining btc need to be sold(liquidate) to settle new evaluated creditor claims and question is how much liquid asset (funds) creditors would receive due crushing the btc price. Eventual btc+forks surplus(°) what would be quite lower then in worst case scenario, would remain as intangible MtGox asset where corporation can do whatever they want - bankruptcy is completed. (°(eventual btc+forks surplus would depend on new btc price evaluation for creditor claims and difference in new total claimed sum vs. funds JPY what trustee get from actual btc liquidation). Update: corporate dissolution aplies here too, just much less funds to be sent to the shareholders.
Best scenario: (Low probability, read edit at end of the OP) Civil rehabilitation under supervision with approved plan where creditors can claim all remaining btc+ forks unexchanged (not liquidated) + what is already been liquidated.
In this case, if plan is approved we would get 100% our current claim. We need to divide total claimed JPY sum with 50.058JPY (btc 483$) to get how much that is as btc base and on that result add aprox 17% of btc/bcc distributed as btc/bcc. Percentage (17%) might be lower, depend on ther lawsuit and non mtgox users creditor claims. Example of the best case scenario: Current approved claim. Rates to JPY (2014) BTC= 50,058.12 JPY; US$ = 1USD=103.64 JPY Currency US$ balance = 1,200$= approved sum JPY=124,368. Bitcoin balance = 14btc = approved JPY = 700,813.68 124,368+700,813.68 =825,181.68 JPY total of approved creditor claim/ that is sum what creditor receive 100% sum (liquid funds almost available, to be distributed as JPY). 825,181.68/50,058.12=> 16.48 BTC base: 16.48x17%=> 2.80 BTC and 2.80 BCC to return as cryptocurrency. Sumarise: Creditor receive 825,181.68 JPY and 2.80 btc and 2.80 bcc. That would be max return. Same calculation is aplied if creditor had only btc balances, only any currency (fiat) or both currency(fiat) and btc. Both fiat or currency mean: USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.
Iam not sure what that actual CR and plan are in the "best case scenario" as I have no details. We actually need sort of "better case scenario" just without required to liquidate remaining btc+forks and to be distributed as intangible asset (btc+forks). Beside, its Trustee duty to look best interest of all creditors, but for bankrupt company as well, what might cause conflict. Its defenetelly hard and complex situation, for all parties.
Questionable is whatever liquidated intangible asset (btc) under bankruptcy (straight or CR) are subjected to the capital gain (not dividend) and approprate income tax what would cause lower(dilution) funds distribution. However, in that case question is how would be regarded our creditor claims i.e. deductable as intangible asset value entry? Capital gain/profit- loss - deductable - expense=> corporate gross income - tax=> net income. So actually, from what I know from accounting practise, paid funds for evaluated claims would be asset (btc) "in value" while liquidated asset "out value" so actual capital gain net from btc are: difference in paid claims minus actal liquidation value! Beside, that "net capital gain" are not actually "net gain" as there are minus from other deductable sums and only when they are substracted make net income before corporate income tax! It maight be discharged, but I doubt it. Only liquidated untangible asset (btc) are regarded as corporation capital gain/profit, its not corporation dividends. Its conflicted situation because MtGox did not bought these btc, nor mined them, nor gifted, nor received as Mtgox investment and they were never corporation assets. Control of btc as intangible assets does not always equal propietorship (if there are contract or mutual agreement), but it will be (are) if not chalanged and Iam not sure on what grounds are we creditors then (unless corporation addmited debt/liability, but then again on what terms and conditions or user agreement these btc have been received?). Regardless, Trustee must have profesional finance advisoaccountant.
Some examples of intangible assets: patents, trademarks, franchises, goodwill, copyrights, Internet domain names, performance events, licensing agreements, service contracts, computer software, blueprints, manuscripts, joint ventures, medical records, permits, and trade secrets and many more. When MtGox were alive, such intangible asset doesn't enter finance balance sheet neither as asset value or liability value. It would if MtGox exchanged them (trade) for his account with buy/sell price. MtGox when alive these btc just had to record in secundary books as btc +/- held analiticaly for each user. Under bankruptcy proceedings, such a intangible assets as bitcoin is very hard to assest (evaluate), usualy trustee waits until last minute bankrupt company to liquidate them or best bid (°) and to update btc evaluation value what prior were blank, in order creditors get as much as possible. In our case, trustee did not do that and I have not found anything what would make him to evaluate at start of the filling the claims. (°)Actually I think, in case of public auction certain restriction might apply, certain party can't bid (I might be wrong).
However, not all asset are in the same category. In my country, bitcoin is regarded as financial asset, it does not matter is it tangible or not. If I as a person or the company make money from trading internet domains, it would be regarded as income subject to the tax. But if I as a person (not company) make money from exchanging certain personal financial assets, btc, any currency, diamonds, gemstone, gold and earn (dividends and interest excluded) from the positive rate difference, it would not be income subjected to income tax. But in same situation, company would be subjected to the taxes. Capital gain has two separate catogory, dividends what is profit on top of asset (asset reamin) and capital gain from the trade of asset, where one asset is exchanged to another asset and profit is from the rate difference, which can be either positive either negative.
There was a lawsuit against bankrupt Mtgox where user requested full btc refund what were denied with this explanation:
Presiding Judge Masumi Kurachi said the Civil Code envisages proprietorship for tangible entities that occupy space and allow for exclusive control over them. The judge said it is evident bitcoins do not possess the properties of tangible entities...
Basicly that mean, bitcoin is intangible where envisaged proprietorship can't be claimed as they are not phisical in nature and because Mtgox had exclusive control!(based on Japan civil code btw what is 120 years old (°), but what about corrporation/commerce law?) Beside, whatever is exclusive control of said bitcoin (intangible asset) depend on mutual contract, user agreement, term and conditions. Regardless, it was right Court call in this case, they just couldn't return full btc holdings, no chance whasoever, it would be a nightmire for the rest of users who doesn't follow his step, but if he accepted loss of aprox 3/4 btc and wanted only remaining 1/4 rulling might be different.
(°) The National Diet approved significant amendment to the Civil Code in May 2017 to update the Civil Code which is approximately 120 years old. Some general rules and many provisions regarding contracts were amended. The amended Civil Code will be enacted sometime before June 2020.
Edit: Our btc and any other currency balances held at MtGox with 2014 market value is our claim against mtgox all assets. BTC belong to the Mtgox -we creditors only claim that debt. Even these BTC are sold at higher rate then 2014. this just make raise in value of the mtgox liquid financial asset (while intangible asset btc exit books), but doesn't automaticly raise mtgox debts to us! Debt stays as is. According to the mtgoxlegal lawyer, new claim evaluation is not possible and I agree. Then how we the creditors, even in CR will be able to claim the btc as they dont belong to us as btc, but only current debt? Its like we sold our btc at 2014. at 483$ to the Mtgox who never paid us and that value we claim now within our claims. Try to imagine how btc dont exist or it exist but with same rate in 2018 as in 2014. We would be in the same situation if JPY rate against all other currency went to the roof, but btc are still at around 500$. Like its not in 2014, 1usd=103 JPY, but let say in 2018, 1usd=100,000 JPY, our claims would still reflect 2014 rates (even in CR) btc are not different. Even if CR reopen the window for filling claims and evaluation of the ALL claims, it would be at 2014. market rates!
I have a idea where we could get something over our current claims, but still brainstorming and many users won't like it as that is not what they expect to get. I think we are fucked - worst case scenario. Even if someone try to sue based on btc balances once held at Mtgox, it would fail. It might be different case, if Mark(•) said before bankruptcy, hey, these btc never belonged to the Mtgox, return what is left after audit to the mtgox users and then start bankruptcy to try get what went missing from real owned mtgox asset, what is not much and beside, I think bankruptcy would be terminated on grounds how mtgox asset can't even cover administrative creditors who have priority, let alone other creditors. (•) (All three insolvency proceedings can be filed either voluntarily or involuntarily. Generally, no one, including a debtor or any of its creditors, is obligated to file a petition to commence insolvency proceedings under Japanese law.).
50k JPY per bitcoin from creditors approved claim from 2014. is not binding because of Mtgox online claim system state it (or offline claim signiture), but its final and binding based on the Japan Bankruptcy Act court rulling and applicible as binding contractual Agreement in any other Japan proceeding, or eglible laws, Civil Rehabilitation included. Beside, that is only one reason, other reason is how Mtgox is in the bankruptcy proceeding since 2014. its never completed, eventual civil rehabilitation is only transition and if it ever commence, Mtgox is still under rehabilitation Act where for creditors claim total on 2014 rates total nothing change, but can increase distribution from the debtor profits max 100% claim total value (Mtgox has already enough funds or asset to sell to cover 100% payout). Third reason is how Mtgox users are regarded as last class unprotected non-priority creditors. And more reasons, but you get the picture! There is not much difference for the last class of creditors (Mtgox users) between liquidation or civil rehabilitation.
Due to Mtgox terms of use and accounting, Mtgox users are something as unsecured none-priority trade creditors without right to retain proprietorship of sold/bought, but unpaid btc (goods) until actual user withdraw. Real IN and OUT for both fiat and bitcoin with Mtgox are deposits and withdraw, trading are all just virtual balancing and Mtgox is in bankruptcy since 2014. without activity for creditors in regard on this IN and OUT (or trade). Otherwise, if we had legal grounds to get Mtgox btc asset surplus, we would get portion of non-stolen bitcoin back long time ago either outside of bankruptcy or within as separate satisfaction and with that portion btc back, would be able to claim damages for the missing bitcoins.
Anybody can (sponsor) buy MtGox capital (surplus included) and negotiate ~2000-3000$ per bitcoin where sponsor would need ~400-500M$ fresh capital (to take surplus and liabilities) and for that need civil rehabilitation, but nothing change for the creditor claims value (50k JPY/BTC), sponsor is still obligated only creditors claim total value and when settled, sponsor can use surplus free, fresh as their choice. If sponsor is a (group) of creditors, from that ~400-500M$ their claim total on 2014 rates is deducted. Bitcoins balances can't be segretated, otherwise creditors would have it long time ago.
Be careful who use you (creditor) to send umbiguous letters to their lawyers, surveys, without really knowing concrete and detailed plan and what is creditor benefit and how and on what legal grounds they plan to achive it, don't accept diplomatic responses! If somebody want to be a sponsor, I accept it, its a busines, but if nothing change to my creditor claim value with concrete plan how to achive it, it would just further delay distribution! Then its sponsor benefit, not ALL creditors benefit, even though might look like it! Read Bankruptcy and Rehabitilation Acts to learn about trustee duties and responsibilities and how Mtgox trustee have no say in this, trustee only follow court issued order.
Its not only this binding claim value a problem! If we had legal grounds on surplus btc assets, we would be secured creditors and would get portion of non-stolen bitcoin back long time ago either outside of bankruptcy or within, as separate satisfaction and with that portion btc back, would be able to claim damages for the missing bitcoins. I just don't understand people who spent $100k-200k for lawyers blind trust where lawyers just ensure them to think how CR somehow make Mtgox users what are last unsecured non-prority class of creditors into secured creditors with preserved propetorship of Mtgox bitcoin balances, who can claim bitcoin seperatelly either as btc or liquidated value and who could not claim that in the bankruptcy liquidation, but somehow magically in Civil Rehabilitation they can! Based on what legal grounds? Group lawyer told them how would need an court precedent in order creditors get above of 2014 rates claim value!? Precedent? If Mtgox users had agreemant what state how all balances (btc and fiat) are preserved propietorship until user withdraw, we would have aprox 1/4 btc long time ago and no precedent is required for that, (I could tell them this for free).
MtGox case were true Caveat Emptor. Finally, we all bought and sold bitcoin what was not actually fully unspent at Mtgox bitcoin wallets and users monetary balances did not reflect fully MtGox bank account balances.
04/22. I tried to discuss at mtgoxlegal group about counter-arguments what would overturn this major problems in order to help group lawyers, even we end up with nothing, but many misunderstund and bombarded me with questions to defend this and insulted me personaly, because some are ignorant, arrogant, rude, on ego trip and missed the the point how I must post problems first in order to discuss about valid arguments to overturn it, otherwise they would not understand what I talk about. They asked me even to prove it??? Imagine ignorance! Creditor situation is already funded within Japan bankruptcy and Rehabilitation Acts, Civil and Corporate Code, but I have to prove it to them! OMG, that all I can say on that. Wrong group to discuss obviously!
Even by some magic CR commence (if Tibanne appeal fail), it does not mean creditors get anything above of already approved claim total based on 2014 rates, unless Mtgox trustee state it so and rehabitilation plan is confirmed within 5 months after commencement.
submitted by alfabi to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

/r/bitcoin in full meltdown.

Backstory: Recently, one of the largest Bitcoin exchanges said they weren't letting people withdraw Bitcoins due to technical issues (a process called "transaction malleability," which I can't really explain but has been known for awhile). This caused much consternation and a precipitous drop in the value of BTCs. This exchange also released a statement blaming Greg Maxwell, one of the original Bitcoin developers for the "technical issues" they were having.
This has caused much drama.
Keep calm, transaction malleability is not double spending. One of the big "selling points" of Bitcoin is that you can't double spend. As the name suggests, double spending is when you spend the same money twice. It's bad for business and good for thieves.
So Gox decided to take the Bitcoin ship down with them blaming their shortcomings on well known and documented protocol limitations. Shame!
so gox can buy cheat coins to make up for the loss.
That's right, folks, this exchange is crippling their business and reputation...so they can sink the cost of Bitcoins so they can buy them more on the cheap.
Mt Gox's incompetence once again puts BTC on sale? I'm not complaining.
Yep, my buttcoins just dropped in value 20%, but IDGAF because I'm gonna buy more.
You make it sound a lot less apocalyptic than the MT Gox press release did. To the top with you!
TO THE MOON!
Wow, fuck Mt Gox
They just purposefully spread FUD throughout the bitcoin world for the sole purpose of diverting attention while they fix their shit. This transaction malleability thing has been known for a long time and has plenty of easy ways to work around it, like just look and see if there's a double spend attempt on outputs before auto-crediting your internal books. The fact that Gox's shitty coding didn't do that is entirely their fault, and instead of owning up to it, they're trying to cause an earthquake of FUD to divert attention and buy themselves time. That's not just sneaky, that's truly evil. Fuck them. Fuck them so much.
/rant
FUCK THEM THIS PR MOVE IS LITERALLY EVIL. Now, I tend to save concepts of "good" and "evil" for actions that have a considerable moral weight, like when some piece of shit steals my parking spot, but this takes the cake. I speculated invested in a volatile commodity and my speculation investment has tanked, so I'm totes raging about it on Reddit.
Tin foil hat time.
What if a bunch of BTC got stolen and MtGox knows this. So they make FUD that blames bitcoin protocol knowing it will crash the price. They then take USD and buy up cheap bitcoin to cover the BTC that got stolen. What if this new USD will actually drive the price to new HIGHS!
What the hell. I couldn't even satirize this properly. (TO THE MOON)
What the f$#% is the BTC Foundation doing? Kick Mark Kerpopples off the board. Mark Karpeles is the CEO of Mt. Gox.
If your going to claim to be the representative entity for Bitcoin then act like it. Otherwise you are just as big of a joke as that incompitent twit Mr Krabapple bouncing around on his blue ball. I mean, Jesus H. tap dancing on a crispy truiscuit Christ, do something, anything, or gtfo.
*Edit: Help us Obi-Wan Antonopoulos, you're our only hope.
He's literally tanking Bitcoin! Let's take a rash action in response to a rash action!
Karppoopels is on the BTC foundation board? fuuuuuuck thats bad.
Karppoopels. Heh.
Anyone else from The Bitcoin Foundation want to shit on Bitcoin some with more negative PR?. Drugs, money laundering, "bugs"…c'mon guys…gun running could be next? or something worse?????. I'm sure you've got plenty more from where Shrem and Krapeles came from.
Krapeles. Lmao!
Oh, btw, turns out that you should do a little background check on anyone you're doing business with before you do business with him.
Andreas: Unanticipated bugs don’t come with year-old wiki pages fully documenting them. Gox is full of shit. Some guy tweets a thing.
Andreas keeping it real, as always.
Bravo, sir!
And:
I fucking love Andreas.
And now to the conspiracy:
Perfectly timed manipulation on the part of MTGox, this news comes as the 3 day MACD happens, (exponential average crosses the average bitcoin price), it hadn't crossed since early 2013, so big movement was to be expected.
You can see it on the 3day chart on bitcoinwisdom, the blue line and brown line crossing, this is a BIG sign for automated trading bots to make a move, in this case the exponential average (indicating the latest movement trend) went below the average, this means the trend is downwards.
So MTgox preps up their sells, sets a weekend climate of "some big news is about to come out on monday, everyone keep an eye on your coins"
Then DROPS the bad news, and BOOM goes the dynamite. we have an epic crash.
Meanwhile MTgox sets up its orders on BTC-E around 200.
Yep, makes perfect sense. Destroying your credibility as a business so you can get them sweet, sweet Bitcoins.
MtGox - Your new cold storage solution
Setup:
>Create MtGox account >Enable 2FA >Send BTC to MtGox 
And you are finished, no one will able to get to your coins, they are perfectly safe. /s
Haha, get it, because you can't withdraw your coins? And this is front page material.
At this point you can even call it cryogenic storage
So cold it's frozen.
Ho-ho, such wit, much funny.
The Bitcoin Foundation, Coinbase, Bitstamp and Blockchain.info need to issue a statement debunking Gox's "bitcoin bug" argument
Most people trust MtGox. It's the oldest exchange, was the most mentioned in the media. Their press release is pure bullshit but it's a subject that's way too technical anyway for most people to grasp. We need other big players to step up and reassure people, or this could be the death of Bitcoin.
And what will happen now?
Go on, sell your bitcoin, and bang your head into the wall when the price goes back up.
In the mean time, I'm enjoying the cheap coins.
Hmmm. If one were a Gox insider, today would've been a good day to buy bitcoins. Either for a personal account or for the company's, in order to cover past fuckups.
Are you concerned about the price of your holdings? I appreciate that we just got cheap coins.
Plus the general hatejerk:
How I look forward to the day bitcoin won't be goxed anymore.
Even those outside of gox managed to get goxxed today.
Gox has done the greatest service & disservice to Bitcoin.
Sounds like Mark is trying to raise more fear. He needs to step down from the Bitcoin Foundation.
I guess most of the other players fear legal problems if they say anything bad about Gox...
And the final jerk:
I'm fed up with Gox's incompetence and purposely damaging language to the Bitcoin community: I'm saying it here, I'm willing to invest $50,000 in a legit U.S. in exchange for 5% of the business. Somebody get ahold of me!
This press release from Gox was incredibly shady and deceitful. The majority of Bitcoin market crashes are because of them. We need to step up. I'm willing to step up. Get ahold of me on here!
I'm willing to invest $50,000 in a LEGIT U.S. Bitcoin exchange for 5% of the business.
We can't stand for this, people. We can't let lies like this affect the Bitcoin community this much
submitted by Slutlord-Fascist to circlebroke [link] [comments]

How does OceanONE define Exchange 3.0? How to do 1 second transfer, 0 transaction fee trading experience?

If mines and centralized exchanges used to be the protagonists of blockchain era, then decentralized exchanges are likely to bring value interconnections to various fields, and decentralized transactions are highly transparent and extremely strong.
The anti-risk ability, and most of today’s decentralized exchanges are only in the initial stage of development, the product experience can not meet the core needs of users for the transaction: security + simple + fast .
OceanONE combines the advantages of a centralized and decentralized exchange and will be the pioneer of the Exchange 3.0 era.

Exchange Evolution: How will OceanONE define Exchange 3.0?

Looking back at the 1.0 stage of the exchange, the centralized exchange is widely welcomed by users because of its efficient transaction, convenient operation and high liquidity, but there are also hidden security risks behind it. In the face of hacker attacks, many exchanges have caused significant losses. For example, the famous MtGox incident not only caused users to suffer huge financial losses, but also indirectly caused the price of the currency to fall. The overall market loss far exceeded the loss of book capital. Even today, whenever the bitcoin of the account is sold off, it causes the market a certain range of turmoil.
At the current stage of the Exchange 2.0, decentralized exchanges have gradually been reached by more people, and its emergence is mainly to solve the risk of the current centralized exchange. However, to be completely decentralized, efficiency is relatively low compared to current centralized exchanges.
First of all, in terms of security, more than 99% of transactions are currently realized through centralized exchanges. Therefore, the centralized exchanges hold so many digital currencies, which means that they will become the scams of hackers. There is a high risk of funds.
Secondly, in terms of technology, the scalability of decentralized exchanges has not been resolved, so the transaction speed is relatively slow, and the Ethereum network often encounters congestion.

What are the advantages of OceanONE compared to centralized exchanges and decentralized exchanges?

The comparison between OceanONE and the Centralized Exchange is as follows:

1) The user recharges from the imToken or other digital asset wallet to the OceanONE account for trading. If there is a certain risk, the user loses most of the assets of the pending order and protects the security of the assets in the user’s wallet.
2) “0” transfer cost , the user transfers to OceanONE through the Mixin Messenger wallet for pending order transaction, the transfer process is 0 fee.
3) “1” seconds to the account experience, the user transfers the money to the OceanONE through the Mixin Messenger wallet for the pending order transaction, the transfer process is completed in 1 second.

The comparison between OceanONE and the decentralized exchange is:

1) High transaction depth, able to handle high concurrent orders, and real-time transactions.
2) High usability : The user’s mobile phone number is the account number, and the registration process is very simple. The user only needs the mobile phone number, verification code and six-digit PIN code to use.
3) Full currency support : Support BTC / ETH / EOS / XRP / ETC / SC / BCH / LTC / DASH / DOGE / ZEC A total of 11 public chains, more than 40,000 + currency.

How can OceanONE balance efficiency and fairness, be safe and convenient?

OceanONE is a decentralized exchange based on the Mixin Network, providing users with a transparent and secure trading experience.

The Mixin Network has the following features:

  1. Verifiable security : The Mixin Network code is open source, decentralized distributed ledger, multi-signature address and fragment key sharing, and TEE hardware executable environment can verify network security.
  2. Completely free : ordinary users use Mixin Network for free, the entire network transfer 0 handling fee, compared to BTC / ETH, etc. have an absolute advantage.
3, unlimited network throughput can achieve large-scale commercial applications : Mixin’s accounting method uses DAG mode, which can effectively solve the delay problem of blockchain packaging. The network transfer confirmation speed reaches the second level, supporting the billion-level TPS to meet the business-level needs.

web - https://mixin.one/
submitted by mithungee to ico [link] [comments]

The Top 9 Interesting Bitcoin Facts You Need To Know

Part of the reason people don’t want to use Bitcoin is that they don’t know enough about it. Well, our mission here at CoinSutra is to get everyone on the same page with regard to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. 1. The first Bitcoin purchase was for pizza. Did you know why May 22 is celebrated as Bitcoin Pizza Day?
Initially, when bitcoins were mined they were virtually worthless as it cost literally cents to buy a BTC.
But it was until 22 May 2010, when someone purchased something with bitcoins.
Seven years ago on this day, someone bought Piazzas with bitcoins and this purchase was a big deal because no retailer was accepting bitcoins at that time for goods and services.
On 22 May 2010, two Papa John’s Pizzas were exchanged by Laszlo Hanyecz for 10,000 BTC. This was the first official documented purchase of goods using bitcoins.
At that time, the worth of 10,000 BTC was $41.
At the time of writing this article, the worth of 10,000 BTC is around $25.8 million.
  1. The inventor of Bitcoin is a mystery.
Yes, that’s correct! The inventor of Bitcoin is still unknown.
Since the inception of Bitcoin in 2009, there have been several speculations about who the father of Bitcoin is.
The Bitcoin whitepaper was made open to the public under the pseudonym of Satoshi Nakamoto. The identity of “Satoshi” is still a mystery yet to be solved.
Amidst this confusion, there are some people like Craig Wright, an Australian entrepreneur, who in May 2016 claimed to be the inventor of Bitcoin. However, this guy, later on, turned out to be just another scammer.
He with his partner tried to pump a forked version of Bitcoin called Bitcoin cash and made a lot of innocent users lose their hard earned money. None the less, he bought a Limbo with all the scam money.
Some even suggest that Samsung, Toshiba, Nakamichi, and Motorola together created Bitcoin.
“Satoshi Nakamoto”: Samsung and Toshiba —- Satoshi Nakamichi and Motorola —- Nakamoto This anonymity has led to comments like“Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme,“ yet this buzz has not stopped BTC from growing.
Because the purpose of Bitcoin is to be a decentralized method of exchanging money, this anonymity is very healthy for the platform.
  1. Bitcoin is untraceable & Bitcoin is NOT untraceable.
When making Bitcoin transactions, your name/identity is not used in any form. Only your public address is available.
But…
The Bitcoin blockchain is a permanent ledger which is transparent. If anyone knows your Bitcoin public address, they can see how many bitcoins you hold and what transactions you have made.
It’s how the FBI was able to bust the owner of Silk Road.
If users of Bitcoin want to hide their public address or IP, it can be done by using services like Bitmixer.io or a VPN.
That said, this just makes it difficult to trace; difficult, but not impossible.
  1. If you lose your Bitcoin private key, you lose your bitcoins.
James Howells, an IT guy, lost 7,500 bitcoins in November 2013. While he was cleaning his desk at home, he threw away his hard disk containing the private keys of bitcoins which he had mined in 2010.
The realization dawned on him when he read the news of a Norweigan man who made a fortune by buying BTC at a low price.
He searched and searched, but could not find his hard disk.
At present, the worth of 7,500 BTC is approximately $19.4 million.
Without the private key, the funds are lost forever no one can use them.
Until this point in time, it is estimated that around 25% of all bitcoins have been forever lost.
  1. Bitcoins don’t grow on trees. Just like money, bitcoins also don’t grow on trees.
But unlike traditional paper money, you can’t touch, feel, or print bitcoin.
Bitcoins are mined on the blockchain network, and they come into existence when miners successfully mine Bitcoin blocks.
At present, the mining power of Bitcoin’s network is 300 times more powerful than the world’s top 5 supercomputers combined.
  1. There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins.
Bitcoin’s supply is finite.
There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins.
At present, 16.3 million have already been mined and are being traded. The last bitcoin will be mined in 2140. After that, no new bitcoins can be mined.
  1. You can buy a lot of stuff with Bitcoin. People always ask what you can buy with bitcoins.
But the real question should be:
What can’t you buy with bitcoins? Here are just a few of the goods and services offered:
Coffee at Starbucks Funeral items in the US Space travel with Virgin Galatic Order food with Bitcoin E-commerce with Purse.io Book a flight for BTC Buy a Tesla Car To find out more places where you can spend your bitcoins, see CoinSutra’s guide on “Where Do I Spend Bitcoin?“.
  1. Since 2008, Bitcoin has consistently been making a profit (except for 1 year).
Year Price at the Start of Year Price at the end of Year Growth in % 2010 $0.0015 $0.31 20566% 2011 $0.31 $6.18 1893.5% 2012 $6.18 $13.44 117.5% 2013 $13.44 $751 5487.8% 2015 $285 $435.7 52.8% 2016 $435.7 $952.5 118.5% 2017 $952.5 $2586 (To date) 171.57% Yes, I deliberately missed one year: 2014. In that year, Bitcoin prices plummeted, incurring a 62% loss to investors.
That happened mostly because of the MtGox hack in 2014. After that, the price dropped from $751 to $285.
The fear of a blockchain hack engulfed investors, but it was not the blockchain which was compromised. MtGox had several fatal and exploitable flaws.
But every other year, the price of Bitcoin has steadily increased.
  1. Bitcoin can’t be banned. Due to the nature of Bitcoin, there is constant talk about “banning” it. This hostility towards Bitcoin is because it works outside the jurisdiction of the traditional banking system.
However, the fundamental design is such that it can’t be banned, only regulated. As long as you have an internet connection and a Bitcoin wallet, you can engage in Bitcoin.
Nevertheless, many countries have tried to ban it, like Bangladesh, Bolivia, Thailand, and Vietnam (among many others). But there are some countries like Australia, Russia, Japan, and Venezuela which have made Bitcoin an official legal tender and are regulating it.
However, some countries like India and even the USA are unclear of their official policy regarding cryptocurrencies.
Try as they might, Bitcoin can’t be pushed away just because it threatens the financial power structure. This is the real beauty of Bitcoin.
Facts You Need To Know About Bitcoin Bitcoin is considered by many as the most revolutionary breakthrough of the 21st century after the internet.
Numerous cryptocurrencies have come and left after Bitcoin. Some called themselves “rivals of Bitcoin” while some complemented Bitcoin.
This is proof that Bitcoin and the blockchain are here to stay.
If you know more exciting facts about Bitcoin that I have missed in this article, then do let me know in the comments!!!
submitted by Cornerstone_Estate to u/Cornerstone_Estate [link] [comments]

Bitcoin is not user-friendly. Here's a short list of problems, and proposed solutions.

While a lot of attention is being paid to the technical side of the bitcoin protocol, I've noticed a disturbing lack of attention paid to the user experience of the client, and of the ecosystem in entirety. "It's good enough" is tossed around a lot. It works, it's functional. Let me say this unequivocally:
Bitcoin is not even close to ready for use by the general public. The problem is not a lack of exposure. The problem is that it's a pain in the ass.
I mean no offense to the developers working on the client. I'm a web developer myself, and I have a ton of respect for the complexity of what they're building. But, someone needs to throw up some giant red flags as soon as possible to ensure that development starts to trend more towards usability rather than just functionality.
For the sake of making this discussion easier, I'd like to define a few classes of people:
Developers are building Bitcoin for Nerds right now, but Users make up the majority of the human race. If we don't start working on making it accessible to Users, and soon, this bubble that everyone keeps talking about is going to burst and instead of being left with an inflated currency but a thriving, stable economy, we'll have a bunch of Nerds who spent a lot of time day-trading and never actually buying anything. Bitcoin needs sellers of goods and services in order to thrive, sellers can't thrive without buyers, and we need Users to buy. There aren't enough of us Nerds alone. There has to be growth.
So, without further ado, please refer to this image:
http://mlkshk.com/35UI
Here's what I think needs to change.
  1. This Address Book hijacks the common usage of the phrase - that is, the place where a User keeps data about their personal contacts. The Bitcoin Address Book is where one keeps a list of their own addresses. For a new User, this is incredibly confusing. There are a number of immediate, unanswered questions: Why do I have multiple addresses? Which one should I keep my money in? I didn't create this address, why is it here?
I'd recommend obscuring the multiple address concept as much as possible. The creation of a new address when sending bitcoins is a clever anonymizing tactic, but very confusing to the User. The client can create as many addresses as it needs to, but the User should see their funds as existing as one cohesive unit unless they explicitly create a new address.
(Side note: if one wanted to determine where someone had sent bitcoins, wouldn't it be easy to research both the addresses used and find out which one had a history and which didn't? If I donate .90 of my 1.00 BCD to the EFF, the public will see .90 go to address ABC and .10 go to my new address XYZ. If they Google both of those, one shows up on the EFF's website, and the other is brand new. Seems sort of frivolous to me.)
  1. Calling this "Your Bitcoin Address" implies that the User has one address. "This is your address". In reality, this displays the currently selected address, which doesn't appear to change the UI in any significant way. Copy needs to be changed, at least, but I'd again recommend obscuring the concept as much as possible for the sake of preventing confusion.
  2. The balance is, arguably, the most important bit of data in this interface. It should be significantly more prominent. Perhaps the transactions table below should be redesigned (see #9 for more) with the UI border removed and table headers less accentuated, and the current balance displayed in larger text above the Credit column. This would create a visual flow between where a user is now in terms of bitcoin balance, and how they got there.
  3. For about a week in to learning Bitcoin, this New button scared the hell out of me. Combined with the "Your Bitcoin Address" copy, it creates the implication that you can create a new address - that is, replace your current (singular) address with a new address, theoretically wiping out your old one. The button copy needs to be improved, to better explain what is really going on. "Create Additional Address", "Add Address", something like that. Less new/replacing, more creating/adding.
  4. Why can't I just highlight the address and copy it with Command/Ctrl-C? Visually, it's in a stinking text box. The cursor even changes from arrow to text selector! The fact that I can't copy it is silly. Make the box look different, or remove the button and allow for selecting with the cursor.
  5. This doesn't belong at the beginning of the table. Confirmation count is only useful to determine whether or not a transaction is valid, so once it's accepted this data doesn't need to be displayed at all. Probably doesn't ever need to be displayed to Users. What's the difference between 200 confirmations and 300? Practically: nothing.
  6. Hid this for the sake of protecting my privacy, but the date format is silly. 24-hour time by default, no way to change it, no indication of the time zone used. There are a number of little quirks like this in the UI. Individually, they're just picked nits, but combined they create enough cognitive stress to make an interface "difficult". It just doesn't feel good.
  7. Listing the address that received the transaction is silly. Of course I received it with that address, because that's the address I'm currently viewing the transactions for. Show me where it came from.
  8. If you're going to use plus signs, you don't need to use Debit/Credit columns. Redundant data, one way or another.
  9. I'm twelve years old and what is this. Or if you'd prefer, this data is contextless and meaningless to Users (and frankly, I'm not entirely sure why I should care either). Connections count could be useful as an indicator of client connectivity, but that should be displayed as a binary Connected/Not Connected indicator (red/yellow/green light?) or not at all. Block count isn't important for a User to know unless they explicitly want details on the system's status, which should be buried in a menu somewhere. Transactions count should be with the transactions themselves.
So that's a short list. I didn't even get in to the concept of the ambiguous delay when receiving bitcoins, or why requiring manual Wallet backups is a dangerous idea, or why the Wallet itself is stupidly fragile, but maybe I'll touch on that later.
For now, think about Bitcoin from the perspective of a User. I mean, really think about it. Could your grandmother use it, as it stands today? Why would she? How could she? Bitcoin needs to be accessible, easy, and - dare I say it - fun to to use if it's ever going to succeed. Functional isn't good enough, and the discussion about the next steps needs to start now.
And for what it's worth, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. If you're developing a client or a Bitcoin-related service, I'd really like to stop complaining and do whatever I can to help fix this. Get in touch. (Note: this isn't a plea for work. I have a full-time job, I'd just like to offer anything I can to improve the system.)
Thoughts?
[Edit] Wow, this got significantly more attention than I expected. Glad to see so many people contributing to the discussion; even most of those who disagree with some/all of what I said have pretty good arguments! I am working on a basic GUI wallet as a proof of concept of what I'd like to start seeing, but no guarantees that it will ever actually get finished. I don't have nearly enough free time to devote to it right now, sadly, but I'll do what I can. The post from MtGox today implied that they're working on reducing the difficulty surrounding converting currencies, which would be a huge step in the right direction too.
Also realized I should have included my Bitcoin address!
  1. Write a long post.
  2. Get a ton of attention.
  3. Don't include Bitcoin address.
  4. Profit!
If you feel like throwing a few bitcoins my way: 1KSEKy3XTRxJd7CqKciSsnx752VRaibBWr
submitted by 54mf to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Mtgox: Calm Down Dear

TLDR: Gox never was that great, don't just swallow all the freaking-out.

UPDATE in my understanding:

1) 10% of coins on gox are 'off the books'. Have they gone? There are interesting changes to the orderbooks too. Very low price orders (<$100) are being moved/withdrawn.
2) The withdrawl problems I understand to be that they tried to send a whole bunch of bitcoin payments in chunks, but didn't put enough transaction fee for the size, so miners didn't pick them up. Mtgox has to wait for them to ..(come back?) before re-sending them. Like posting a cheque to somebody, but not putting a stamp on the envelope.
Isolvency: very unlikely Criminal: unlikely (and unwise) USD withdrawl problems: Old news (USD is an old market) JPY: all good (I assume) usecehmu Slow BTC withdrawls: bad if true, probably not true Zillions of support tickets: Not great, but old news, and they have Zillions of customers.
High prices because people are exiting gox: Dumbass perma-myth (in my opinion)
Gox is hard-core. I love it.
BTC-e was being touted as a 'market leader' but, yet again FREAKED out at the last mini-drop. Gox knew better and blitzed up the numbers: "that ain't a knife"
This blah uses basic meachisms to blow away some things that might be counter-intuative at first glance. It is not supposed to be ultra clever.
Mechanisms:
No USD withdrawls: Gox is not a currency exchnage, but sells BTC to any currency at a 'single' price. Example: Americans are 'generally' withdrawing money, Chinese are pumping money in. Gox has loads of YEN, no dollars, but BTC prices are rising and rising. Therefor, you can't withdraw dollars, because Gox ain't got none, despite your coins being worth a high dollar value.
USD Withdrawl issues might not be the "big deal" people seem to think it is:
1) USD does not mean Americans. Many people trade dollars because many people trade dollars. This means that USD withdraws are... not as big a problem as you might expect. If you're expecting gox to disappear becuase Americans can't get their money... it might not happen. I understand that European withdrawls are reliably slow (~month) and Japanese withdraws are in the days range. 2) Why would you withdrawn fiat. Only a few Pro Traders would do that, but then, the returns on BTC are so mental, they'd probably just keep growing BTC anyway.
Insolvency: Just like ebay allows you to buy and sell stuff, 'Gox allows you to buy and sell bitcoins. They don't personally send their money. In the event of a run-on-the-gox, simply the price will either drop/go through the roof depending if fiat/BTC is coming out. No sweat of 'goxs back. It's just matching buyers with sellers.
Gox is probably absolutely loaded. For every of 1,000 BTC exchanged, they're currently getting about $5000. For what? running a website? Isn't that when the computers do everything? Pr-ofit.
Asside from that it's just business as usual. Slow BTC withdrawls aren't great. If 'coins stop coming out of gox, that's bad, but they shouldn't. These are not 'goxes coins. Every coin in should be withdraw-able, unless criminal stuff has gone on.
High-gox-price-is-people-existing-myth: This has been the 'accepted reason' for high gox prices since june - i.e - forever.
Just quickly:
  1. If people really were exiting gox in a hurry, then yes, the price would rise, but also, They Would Have Gone. Gox-price has been consistantly high for ages. China trumped it because it was crazy for coins.
  2. I am convinced that the other exchanges have a different risk-profile. Also BTC-E is an exit-point for other cryptos = lower lows.
  3. It might be that Gox has the oldest (and most powerful?) robots on. I understand the API to be better. Bots NEED APIs. They might drive the price. Moving bots is a real freaking hassle. Try telling it to adjust it's old data for price differences? huge loss.
  4. If fees are higher, that will probably also drive prices up faster (in order to make the same profit on a trade, it needs to rise more)
  5. If you were a serious trader, looking to exit gox, you'd do it in a clever place. There have been plenty of perfect opportunities to exit over the last 3 months. Pro traders would a)not be so scaredy cat b) probably not leave unless they needed to. c) probably dont need to
  6. Becuase of the high prices and volatility, gox is a great place to trade and make money, so it's not without it's charms.
  7. It might be that it's closer to the asian market, which might be different from 'stamp and '-E.
  8. At the moment I think it's hyper-high becuase Gox is usually the "first one up", and it thinks we're off on some new bubble. I'm not sure I believe it, but that's a different thread.
  9. Slow withdrawls might be enough to fight arb, and therefor insulate high prices. This is different from people exiting gox.
  10. Coins have exited gox, but only around half. They other exchanges may have risen around them. In terms of $dollar value, it's dealing with 5x more than 4 months ago ish (with half the coins, but 10x price rise).
I don't know the exact-stuffs, but I just wanted to post these points so people at least had seen them. I'm hoping this isn't downvoted to death, but am fatalistically indifferent if it does.
submitted by inteblio to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

Bitstamp's streaming API, and exploitation possibilities it might reveal

TL;DR: Bitstamp's undocumented streaming API seems to reveal out-of-order trade execution that can be exploited to steal margins from large buys/sells.
Bitstamp has an undocumented streaming API. You should know what it seems to reveal about Bitstamp's order matching.
It's not surprising that I see trades on the stream about 10s before I see them on BitcoinWisdom etc. (I haven't compared that to the latency of direct API polling; my lag to BW and processing lag at BW's end might be included there.) That's already not fair. Bitstamp should document the stream, or delay it.
Before I tell you what is surprising, a quick detour: Bitstamp only provides limit orders. "Instant" (aka Market) orders are simulated by placing a limit order with the limit set to whatever was the top of the opposite side of the book at the time, and as anyone who has tried to trade at Bitstamp during a rally/drop will know, the top often moves before your "instant" order hits the books and therefore doesn't execute. People work around this by manually or automatically placing limit orders with limits that go beyond the top of the opposite side of the book, ensuring that they'll match something.
Suppose someone places such a limit order. Rather than lock the book until the order is matched and produces a trade, the order is placed on the book and the book is allowed to cross. People have reported here on Reddit seeing this before. That's kind of surprising, but perhaps you're thinking they ensure things still execute in order. Well, the stream I'm watching includes both order and trade events, and I typically see orders on the stream anywhere between ~2.5s and ~8s ("the window") before they match and produce a trade; if you're only trading by watching BitcoinWisdom and others, I see things happen as much as 18s ahead of you.
What properly surprises me is that within the window, if another limit order gets placed with a limit even higher than the first before the first has matched, that second order can execute before the first. An example from real stream data follows. The best ask (order_type=1) is 202.10, set by the first order creation I've included. received is added by me on receipt; the rest comes from the live stream. Some non-participating orders away from the book top have been removed for clarity.
{"received": "1383077092.151", "type": "order_created", "price": "202.10", "amount": "3.00700000", "datetime": "1383077091", "id": 8595046, "order_type": 1} {"received": "1383077095.876", "type": "order_created", "price": "221.13", "amount": "0.19825903", "datetime": "1383077095", "id": 8595048, "order_type": 0} {"received": "1383077098.420", "type": "order_created", "price": "222.65", "amount": "0.63000000", "datetime": "1383077098", "id": 8595051, "order_type": 0} {"received": "1383077100.908", "type": "order_deleted", "price": "222.65", "amount": "0.00000000", "datetime": "1383077099", "id": 8595051, "order_type": 0} {"received": "1383077100.918", "type": "order_changed", "price": "202.10", "amount": "2.37700000", "datetime": "1383077096", "id": 8595046, "order_type": 1} {"received": "1383077100.964", "type": "trade", "price": 202.09999999999999, "amount": 0.63, "id": 1698465} {"received": "1383077101.016", "type": "order_deleted", "price": "221.13", "amount": "0.00000000", "datetime": "1383077099", "id": 8595048, "order_type": 0} {"received": "1383077101.051", "type": "order_changed", "price": "202.10", "amount": "2.17874097", "datetime": "1383077096", "id": 8595046, "order_type": 1} {"received": "1383077101.063", "type": "trade", "price": 202.09999999999999, "amount": 0.19825903, "id": 1698466} 
Bid 8595048 for 0.19825903 @ 221.13 would cross the book, and should match immediately, but orders continue to be accepted and no trade appears.
Bid 8595051 for 0.63 @ 222.65 would also cross the book, but since it arrived ~2.544 seconds later — and assuming FIFO matching — it shouldn't execute until after 8595048. But it executes first. In this case, fortunately there's enough depth to the ask that both fill at the price they should, but this out-of-order execution occurs even when there isn't enough depth; I can give real examples from the stream but they make less clear examples because they tend to involve multiple fills.
Imagine that you're watching this stream and you see the FBI dump the SR coins, and that the window is wide enough for you to react. You could place a limit order that beats theirs, being sure to sell your coins before theirs crash the exchange rate.
Alternatively you could always maintain a buy order in the book, far enough away that you can maintain a constant distance from the best bid but close enough that a whale might fill it. When you see a whale's sell, you snipe a high sell by beating their limit. The whale's order then goes through and fills some other bids, and your low buy. You effectively just made a high sale and made a low buy with no risk at all. You could do this on both sides of the book at once.
Why document this instead of just taking advantage of it? I hate the idea that some traders are playing with loaded dice. If the engine has to behave in this funky way, it should be documented; ideally it should simply behave as everyone expects it to anyway. Why post under a throwaway? While I've made no attempt to exploit this, I wouldn't put it past Bitstamp to confiscate my balances and close my account; that's simpler for them than checking whether I did exploit it. (In case I choose to link this to my real account later or you need me to prove I'm me, I can provide a pre-image for e591ed9a365ad73d29dc22f10b170fff and d4bd7f9db698c81ba31ce544d2025834.) Why not report it to Bitstamp first? Bitstamp has a poor track record for addressing bugs reported in their engine, probably needs to be embarrassed into doing something, and they can easily just disable the stream. I've left stream access details undocumented, for now. EDIT: described on bitcointalk (via Pusher) as well as below (direct WebSocket access).
I'd ask Bitstamp to confirm whether they believe this is a problem, say what they plan to do about it (if anything) and I invite them to PM me here in the unlikely event that they need more info.
I'd also really like them to make their stream useable, along with a single orderbook snapshot, to maintain an accurate of the orderbook without having to make unreliable inferences — i.e. include prev_amount (or amount_delta) in order_deleted and order_changed, and also include in each trade event the order IDs that matched. Having these things would bring it towards or beyond MtGox's stream, which provides at least the remaining volume at the affected pricepoint. It'd also be lovely if the ungrouped orderbook snapshot included order IDs and could be explicitly pinned between two stream order_foo events for easier syncing (the timestamp doesn't seem to accurately match the stream's datetimes, and requires guesswork). And a pony and a winnebago and the moon on a stick.
submitted by serves-two to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Current state of affairs

IMPORTANTE NOTE: THIS THREAD IS NO LONGER BEING UPDATED, PLEASE FOLLOW THIS ONE INSTEAD: http://www.reddit.com/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/21hrv8/current_state_of_affairs/ I explain the reason for the change here. Thanks!

LAST UPDATE: March 27th 2014 09:47 GMT +1

NOTE: I'm trying my best but because of the sheer volume of tidbits popping up every day, this post might ocasionally miss some updates. Please feel free to point it out in the comments whenever you feel there is information missing in the post, thanks!
A note on recovering funds: We have no information on how to recover fiat/bitcoins/goxcoins yet and MtGox has only given very vague statements so far. It is speculated Mark Karpeles (CEO of MtGox) is currently figuring out what to do and not flying to the Bahamas with our money. It is advisable to have patience and wait for new developments on the subject for the time being.
March 26th, 2014
Match 25th, 2014
A new rumor has surfaced twitter, currently unsubstantiated, from @CanarslanEren who according to his previous tweets would have previously either guessed correctly or know in advance about the recovered 200K BTC (emphasis mine):
Within a few days(or hours) @MtGox will announce that "they found ~670.000 #bitcoin & may release some BTCs to the victims. @PatronaPartners
https://twitter.com/CanarslanEren/status/448418452701974528
The community consensus at the moment seems to be of skepticism, as it always goes with this kind of rumors. See also:
March 21th, 2014
  • There's a new update on mtgox.com confirming the previous story of having recovered 200K BTC that were thought lost. Key points:
    • On March 7, 2014, MtGox Co., Ltd. confirmed that an oldn format wallet which was used prior to June 2011 held a balance of approximately 200,000 BTC (199,999.99 BTC)
    • For security reasons, the 200,000 BTC which were at first on the 7th moved to online wallets were moved between the 14 th and the 15th to offline wallets.
    • The bitcoins held today by MtGox Co., Ltd. amount to a total of approximately 202,000 BTC, including the above 200,000 BTC and the approximately 2,000 BTC which existed prior to the application for commencement of a civil rehabilitation proceeding.
March 20th, 2014
  • Several users were reporting issues with the balance-checking tool online at mtgox.com, namely that bank transfers and transactions stuck in progress were not showing. This is now apparently fixed and balances seem to have been accordingly updated. Thread here.
  • In line with the blockchain movements we've seen for the past few weeks and the respective MtGox API activity, finally a japanese news article appeared where MtGox lawyers announce MtGox has found and owns 200K BTC, translation, courtesy of h1d:
    Bitcoin exchange Mt.Gox which collapsed in February announced on 20th that they have found they're still in possession of the 200,000 BTC out of the 850,000 BTC that was reported to be lost.
    According to the lawyer, they found them on the 7th of this month by searching through a storage on the internet called a "wallet" which was being used by MtGox up until June 2011.
    MtGox has reported that they have lost almost all of the 850,000 BTC owned while filing for bankruptcy protection on February 28th.
    /bitcoin thread here.
March 18th, 2014
  • A new update on mtgox.com is now online: account holders can now provide their login authentication data on the site to retrieve the last status of their wallets for convenience. It would appear that this update is legimitate, Redditcoin states:
    I just called the MtGox call centre in Japan - they confirmed that the login has been put there by "legal" and they have not been hacked. I called this number from the original banckrupty announcement (I called from Australia - we are only 2 hours ahead): +81 3-4588-3922. A nice man with an American accent said that the login has been put there by "legal" for users to check their balances and that the website has not been hacked.
    Redditcoin asked for transaction history data as well:
    I called the number again (about an hour later) - again, absolutely no waiting - I called again to ask about my transaction history. The same man answered, with the American accent (although sounded Japanese), who spoke impeccable English. He said that the transaction history is still unavailable because the courts still have to "polish" it (whatever that means). I said I needed it for taxation purposes. He replied by saying he will "check on this, and post an update on the website soon".
    As for the balance data that can now be retrieved on mtgox.com, the site notes (emphasis mine):
    This balance confirmation service is provided on this site only for the convenience of all users. Please be aware that confirming the balance on this site does not constitute a filing of rehabilitation claims under the civil rehabilitation procedure and note that the balance amounts shown on this site should also not be considered an acknowledgment by MtGox Co., Ltd. of the amount of any rehabilitation claims of users. Rehabilitation claims under a civil rehabilitation procedure become confirmed from a filing which is followed by an investigation procedure. The method for filing claims will be published on this site as soon as we will be in situation to announce it.
  • The MtGox API which used to list pending transactions has been removed today. In the past few weeks, this API had shown that the hundreds of thousands of BTC moving in the blockchain connected with MtGox wallets could still belong to Gox. Thread.
Match 17th, 2014
March 16, 2014
An new unconfirmed, unverified IRC quote appeared on /bitcoin:
we are working on resuming service, can't say how soon it'll be
While the authenticity is still in question, if true this would be in line with all the rumors and hints we've seen up until now.
March 15, 2014
  • The hundreds of thousands of coins moving in the blockchain that MtGox allegedly still own have been spotted doing something new: the outputs are now merging in new addresses of 2K BTC each. This was first spotted in this thread and later confirmed here. As usual, we have zero indications of what this means yet. -Mahn speculates:
    The only thing I can imagine myself is that whoever is doing the splitting decided 50 BTC was too little or would take too long and switched to bigger outputs per address.
  • New movement in the MtGox order book as reported by their still online API has been detected. Thread.
  • Further discussion on bitcointalk revealed that the alleged personal customer information for sale by the recent MtGox data leak hackers is most likely fake. See also this thread.
March 14th, 2014
There's a new update on mtgox.com concerning their Chapter 15 US filing. It contains no new information other than the confirmation of the news that appeared on March 11th.
March 12th, 2014
  • MtGox US subsidiary assets have been temporarily frozen by US Judge. Story here.
  • Mark Karpeles declaration to the US Bankruptcy Court has been published online:
    "On February 7, 2014, all bitcoin withdrawals were halted by MtGox due to the theft or disappearance of hundreds of thousands of bitcoins owned by MtGox customers as well as MtGox itself. The cause of the theft or disappearance is the subject of intensive investigation by me and others -- as of the present time I believe it was caused or related to a defect or "bug" in the bitcoin software algorithm, which was exploited by one or more persons who had "hacked" the bitcoin network. On February 24, 2014, MtGox suspended all trading after internal investigations discovered a loss of 744,408 bitcoins presumably from this method of theft. These events caused among others MtGox to become insolvent and to file the Japan Proceeding."
    Discussion thread.
March 1st-11th:
http://www.reddit.com/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/1yvvec/current_state_of_affairs/cg2di1f
February 2014:
http://www.reddit.com/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/1yvvec/current_state_of_affairs/cfywewf
submitted by -Mahn to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

IC Exchange will have a full order book directly connected with major crypto exchanges and global markets

From the slow crumple of crypto altcoin exchange to the never-ending MtGox case – there are some important lessons that everyone can learn. Certainly, recognizing the factors that qualify a good cryptocurrency exchange v.s. a bad one is like recognizing which banks can be trusted and which cannot.
Firstly, no one likes to get over charged. Paying the low-priced fees is always important. Why would deposit methods influence the ranking of an exchange? Because when customers have determined to trust a certain place, they tend to put to the same site. Such manners mean that consumers present to have a range of selection for depositing and withdrawing fiat/crypto. If you are new to bitcoin, you may have heard mainstream media reports about how “bitcoin was hacked” or something similar.
What actually happens is that bitcoin exchanges do themselves get hacked. This has nothing to do with bitcoin the protocol – which remains incredibly secure and has never been compromised since its creation Sometimes we think that the creators actually asked themselves: “how can we make this as hard as possible for new users to understand?” It is really important to start off simple.
Don’t try use a decentralized exchange if this is your first day on bitcoin. It’s good to research each site’s customer service records before depositing. Some places are really fast to respond to customer queries, while others may take days to get back to you.
IC Exchange will be integrated securely with the IC Wallet, IC Brokerage and IC Digital Bank through a user-friendly platform, a full fledge cryptocurrency exchange. The exchange will be listing major coins and newly issued ICOs to provide a complete diversified coin spectrum for market participants.
The coins will be listed against other cryptos, fiat currencies and traditional financial instruments such as ETFs, and commodities. By incorporating the IC Exchange with the other components, investors are able to take a new route in terms of trading their cryptocurrencies and diversifying their portfolios.
The IC Exchange will approve several software solutions from other platform providers and exchanges that can be used for trading. The trade at any online electronic exchange platform happens when the best buy order (order with highest bid price) is matched with the best sell order (order with lowest ask price) on price-time priority basis.
IC Exchange will have a full order book directly connected with major crypto exchanges and global markets. The full order book provides the necessary liquidity to instantly buy and sell crypto pairs with the tightest spreads, which ensures significant volume of transactions from day one. Liquidity will be ensured by linking exchange books under the IC Exchange umbrella.
Meanwhile, the IC Brokerage’s order book will be linked to the actual traditional exchanges such as CME, NASDAQ and others in order to insure execution at the most efficient price without any additional cost by intermediaries. For the delivery of an order in terms of crypto versus traditional assets, the seller will transfer value of the crypto to the buyer’s wallet, and the buyer will transfer value of fiat to the seller’s IC Digital Bank account.
Simultaneously as the order is matched and delivered to the users, the seller’s IC Brokerage account reflects the new fiat value available in the IC Digital Bank account, then the system completes the order by purchasing the user’s choice of traditional asset. In the latter scenario, the active components delivering the order are the IC Wallet, IC Digital Bank, IC Brokerage and the IC Exchange, using the order matching system to connect the buyer and seller together, reads and facilitates the type of transaction and its implications in the Ecosystem.
INGOT will use the Distributed Ledger Platform Asset Issuance Module which will provide its Ecosystem participants with an environment to list their newly issued coins and pair them against fiat and other available cryptocurrencies.
submitted by coinsword666 to ICOAnalysis [link] [comments]

A quick word about bulk cross trades (and about the Mtgox trustee crashing the market)

Some of you already know me from my previous reddit post. Today I am going to talk to you about an aspect of the crypto market that I discovered a few months ago and which continues to blow my mind on a daily basis. A market that only a few people really are familiar with, because it simply did not exist 6 months ago: Cross trades for amounts over 10k BTC (>$100m). I will explain how a buyer and a seller try to exchange OTC large quantities of crypto aginst fiat, or crypto vs crypto (e,g BTC/ETH) for large amount, in a single transaction. I thought no single individual except Satoshi possibly had more than 100k btc until I saw it with my eyes. It took me time to realize it was true. It's ironical I drafted this post way before the Mtgox Trustee decided to screw us up by unleashing its stack on the market in the most unappropriate way. As I highlighted in my previous post, bitcoin is still a very thin market and trading on exchange and not OTC is a sure way to crash the market. If you are an early bitcoin adopter and held all these years, you certainly care about the price. If you want to let the market unaffected by your exit, cross trades are the way to operate. This post might be boring to some of you, it does not intend to be funny, but to clarify how this market is operated right now, and how it should be organized.
How I got involved.
Following my reddit post, I was contacted on telegram at year end. Private chat with 2mn self distruct. A simple message: "I have a seller for 40k BTC willing to sell at 5% discount" My philosophy in life is always to give a chance to people. Even though I thought this was 99% likely to be a scam, that I had not sleept for 2 days following the inflow of messages that had buried my reddit inbox, I gave a chance to this guy; and the nightmare begun.
The problem with cross trades today.
You must be familiar with the concept of "Six degrees of separation" Anyone in the word is 6 phone calls away from any other guy. Might be Donald Trump. But it might also be Satoshi after all. Anyone knows someone who knows a bitcoin whale. In this context, if someone tells you he knows a seller, and you naïvely start looking for a buyer, what will inevitably happen is the following: You will be right in the middle of a chain of 7 introducing agents that connects a distruful seller to a distrustful buyer. 7 people who think they are entitled to a cut on the trade just for the privilege of providing the name and phone number of the next guys in the chain. All of them will picture themselves as the new Jordan Belfort, and explain to you rationaly why he diserves a bigger cut than you. Meanwhile, the deal does not progress, negociations between introducing agents go on and on endlessly, the 5% discount is completely eaten up by their greed and when eventually an informal agreement is found with everyone, the fluctuations of bitcoin has gotten either the seller or the buyer dead cold. And that's when an end party does not turn up to be ghost bid or offer in the first place, potentially wasting the time of everone involved in the transaction. Some people in the chain would also patronize you. They would claim they have settled such deals in the past and know better than you. They would even try to intimidate you to squeeze you or get you out of the chain. One guy threatened to report my company to the FINMA for alledgedly misrepresenting a trade. I have spent over a year setting up my business in the most professional way, hiring full time crypto trader, in-house lawyer, compliance officer, analyst, relationship managers. Paid hundred thousands of Swiss Francs & BTC in salaries, expenses and legal opinions to be able to legally and transparently operate according to the regulations in Switzerland, and just like this, one guy thinks he can shut me down to increase his cut ? come on. That's what a cross trade generally looks like today. The wild wild west. An emerging market full of non-professional introducing agents eager for a get-rich-quick 1% introducing fee on a crypto wealth that was created out of a long and painful hodling by the seller.
Distrustful Buyer and Distrustful Seller. One big issue with cross trades is who should show his cards first. Typically the buyer would not want to disclose his identity before the seller shows a proof of life of his wallet. I will spare you the kind of scams whereby a would-be seller replies to the request with a virus-infected video of his wallet. Similarly, legit sellers would not want to disclose their id easily before seeing a proof of funds. This problem quickly becomes a dead end when communication is not direct and information gets lost in translation within the chain of introducing agents. To solve this issue we have elaborated a neutral procedure for both parties, but I have to say I am generally on the side of the seller here. First, it is common for sellers to spread their crypto wealth behind several address for security or confidentiality reason, so showing a proof of BTC ownership for 50k BTC at once is not easy. No seller would consolidate their assets in bulk before negociations have moved to an advanced stage just to please a potential buyer they are not even sure is legit. Message signature to show proof of bitcoin wealth, as well as micro transaction from several addresses become quickly a cumbersome process. Besides, many sellers who are historic holders sometimes went in BTC early on a ideology basis, for the sake of privacy and anonymity. They have a hard time easily compromising the confidentiality they have clung to for years. This is a cutural issue that buyers fail to understand, especially so as buyers for this size generally are financial institutions, late to the game, coming from a world where confidentiality towards governement was given up centuries ago.
Buyers are impatient, they are used to quick deals on financial markets, settled bank to bank. Sometimes I can feel they have a old generation mindset. A legit buyer came to me looking to buy 40k BTC, just because his (well known) company, which is involved in commodity trading, could afford to pay for it. He was talking to me in CAPS LOCK on SMS, quickly started to insult everyone in the chain, asking to talk in direct to the seller, bargaining my fee despite me showing a full 5% discount. When you do not know a market and its specificities, you don't see the opportunities. After weeks of work on that trade, being treated of miserable broker by this guy who was so full of himself was hard to swallow on my end. I am active in the finance industry at an institutional level for more than 15years, just because on that trade I offer liquidity in bitcoin does not make me less legit than if I was brokering on other another market.
5% discount really ? Most of the deals I have seen over the last 3 months involved the seller showing a discount from 5% to 8%. It does make sense when you think about it. Liquidity in fiat is scarce for such amount. Cashing out could take weeks. Even through OTC desks like cumberlandmining, selling btc for tranches over $1m widens the spread as you wipe out their order book. The privilege of selling so many bitcoins in just a single transaction, makes it worth it to accept getting rid of them at a 5% discount.
Another reason why a discount is a common thing is because of the amazing BTC price increase over the last years. What is 5% when you have increased your asset by 20000% in 5 Years in $ terms. Still 5% discount is an effort from the seller and at least should pay for the privilege to show your cards in second not first.
Traditionally the discount comes from the seller, however beginning of February this year, when Bitcoin crashed from its top of $20k a piece to $6-8k an interesting dynamic happened. A buyer came to me and he was fine paying a premium on the price since he was in a rush to close the deal at this attractive price. This is a real market. Premium/discount should vary dynamically depending not only on market prices but also on the eagerness of either party to close the transaction. I might be hated within the industry for saying this but if you are a seller, do not get intimidated. Do not get talked into showing a discount as if it were natural. Anything above 5% discount is abusive to me.
Similarly, a buyer bargaining endlessly to trade at a 2% discount is a joke. Volatitlity is the very nature of crypto. Arguably, saving 2% on a $400m trades saves some decent money. But if you fix the price at 4pm, bitcoin can trade 2% away at 4.01 pm anyway. If you are really willing to buy such a large amount of crypto, at least try to understand the market. Also, be commited. If during the negociations, the typical price movements get you cold I might blacklist you as a time waster. Remember that your counterparty, the seller, has probably been holding for years, and during this time he had the market moved against him by more than 80% from the top. In this context, the seller will disregard your bid and won't take you seriously if you start bargaining for 2% discount.
The economic rational of cross-trades and the philosophical issue My personal opinion is that direct cross trades should be settled at market though a predetermined fixing date & time agreed contractually, based on a reference website price like blockchain.info or coinmarketcap for greater transparency. The escrow or financial intermediary in between should not take more than 1% flat of the trade to be split 50-50 by both parties. Then it becomes rational to trade in block for everyone, as it is actually cheaper and quicker than trading in tranches of $1m btc equivalent on Genesis. 0.5% for each leg on trades of 50k btc, that's what my company does when I have selling and buying interest I can match. It is a price no one can compete with. Now, because it is a young market and so many introducing agents are typically involved in connecting buyers and sellers, the anarchy prevails. But I can tell you already from experience what will happen soon: Goldman will enter the market, they will open their crypto desk and they will try to crush everyone. Buyers will rush to trade there because hey, it's Goldman Sachs, and sellers who actually hate the banking industry will have no choice but to hand over their BTC to an investment bank if they want to sell in bulk. Sad, but true.
Cross trades would make Satoshi cry out from his grave in its current form: Crypto was created to exchange peer to peer, without midlemen of financial intermediation. Bulk cross trades right now involve several layers of intermediraies. Besides, it is currently a mecanisme that transfers the wealth from miners and early adopters to the hands of financial institutions. Most of the buyers I have seen in all these trades were financial institutions or banks. It's not a surprise for this amount. There were some individuals amoung the buyers: late comers rich sheiks or rich families from Emerging Markets. But generally speaking it was the financial world buying bitcoin. Shockingly, I can even reveal a central bank was involved in a very large block trade. When all the banks will have acquired bitcoin, the same thing will happen to this market as what happened to gold. The price will be manipulated. Having gold in collateral, banks like JP Morgan were able to neutralize the price by shorting the futures safely. For each ounce of physical gold now, you have 400 ounces of paper gold in existence. Physical gold is only $8 trillion market cap, so it can be manipulated easily. Unfortunnately, the same might happen to bitcoin when the transfer from individuals to financial institutions is complete. I do not judge what's happening right now, I just feel a little sad about it. I have banks willing to buy in my book. I have hedge funds. I try to execute in the most professional way. And if I close a trade after working so hard, I am happy. The buyer and seller are happy because the trade was cheap and fast, and somehow I have modestly contributed a little more, at my level, to global adoption. I know you guys do not like this theme but some banks entering the crypto scene is a way for us to introduce our trojan horse: Adoption is closer than it ever was before. At the end of the day, Goldman might open a crypto desk, they will certainly get the buyers, but I doubt they will get the sellers so easily. A lot of sellers are still ideologically oriented and biased negatively towards banks, and fortunately they still prefer to deal with crypto intermediaries like my company than with a bank.
KYC...KYC is mandatory. So let me get this straight: If you intend to make a 40k BTC deal (>$400m) without showing a passport, think again. It won't work. If you are not willing to show it to a Swiss regulated entity, bound by banking secrecy laws, then you will never show it to anyone, and you will never do the trade. Besides, if you are not ready to give me information about you, and I can't draft your kyc for my records, I cannot include you in my book and show your interest to other counterparties. It means that even if you are legit and can proof ownership over 40k BTC, I will not show your offer to a potential buyer because I cannot certify you are AML compliant. Same thing for buyers: You are an asset manager and you claim you have a buyer for $400m, but you have no power of attorney nor are willing to disclose the kyc and Id of your buyer, then I am not interested. I only deal in direct. I would share revenue with you and would consider you as an introducing agent obviously, but I want to deal in direct with the end party. If I don't know the end client, how will I be able to show any legitimacy to a potential seller ? In any case, kyc is the first mandatory step for a X-trade. I would keep the info confidential, but I badly need it. I am audited, and anyway nowadays it has become impossible to transit fiat in the banking system without establishing and documenting an extensive profile and full paper trail for any client. As a financial intermediary subject to Swiss Anti-Money Laundering Act, we shall be provided with extensive KYC information relating to the buyer and the seller. It protects everyone in the trade, not just us.
*kyc for seller.
The kyc for the seller is the most difficult to write. I will refer you to my reddit post where I explain in detail what's needed. If we meet physically, and you collaborate on every aspect of your story, the documentation for your kyc can be done in half a day and the drafting would take another couple of days. What takes longer is the account opening. If you sell 40k BTC, you do need an account that will not freeze the money after execution. This is something I can provide, but account opening can take up to 4 weeks in Switzerland, even with a crypto friendly bank like the ones I work with. You have to start the account opening process early before we start negociations with prospective buyers. Besides we will need an extract from your wallet to run services like elliptic.co, chainanalysis.com or scorechain.com
*kyc for buyer
As I said, buyers for this kind of amounts are generally financial institutions. If you are a bank or a hedge fund I need: Shareholding structure Regulatory status from your financial supervision authority Trade registry extract with authorized signatories list Bylaws Board resolution to show the intention to buy X btc, and formally authorizing the signatories of the contract to represent the bank in this context ID, CV,and proof of Address of the representative appointed by the board resolution. Proof of funds.
If you are an individual: Copy of the passport CV, name, surname, date of birth, address, country of residence, professional activity proof of residence, and explain to me how in the world you are able to buy half a billion USD of bitcoin in one shot. If you want to buy for $10m "only" ;) it is the same, I need to understand your background and source of wealth. Also tell me where the funds will be wired from (Bank, country, city of provenance) ., so I can liaise with your bank officer.
*kyc for the introducing agent. just because you introduce me to a bitcoin whale or to a large buyer won't save you from a kyc sorry guys. pm me to see what's needed.
the procedure and the solution After failing consistently to close block trades for over a month, I realized something was wrong- Buyers and sellers of bulk trades all have their own procedure, which has been generally drafted to their advantage, in detriment to the other party. One seller would insist for instance to install bitcoin core on the buyer's computer; the buyer couldn't care less.
There are two ways to solve the problem: 1.the first solution is what actors like Jonathan De Rin and his group, Nordic partneSatoshi trading have adopted. They would force their way up the chain of intermediaries to try to take control over all introducing agents, connect the buyer and seller in direct, and re-structure the deal holistically rather being confined in the russian doll problematics of layers of introducers. It is agressive, requires a lot of nogociation and bargaining, but could work. The problem with this approach is that it only solves part of the solution: when buyer and sellers are eventually connected they can decide to squeeze everyone in the chain. you generally need an escrow account to settle the transaction. setting up an escrow for a crypto transaction is not so easy and takes time. Unlike the buyer, the seller often has no connection to the finance industry so he would have to rely on the buyer for the escrow set up: At that point the seller would be giving his counterparty more power, or he would need to involve a lawer who would take an additional cut. Besides, an escrow account belongs to both the buyer and the seller. Both of them are the beneficial owners. Let's be honnest, because of price fluctuations, the deal can fail at any time before execution. So once you have set up two escrows for nothing the bank will be nervous and will never want to do business with you again. Setting up a escrow costs about 0,25% of the amount of the trade. But as usual some banks and lawyers will try to benefit from the situation and try to ask for way above than 1% for the set up ( Abusive, once again)
2.our solution is different. We do not act as traditional intermediary. We are the direct counterparty to the buyer and the seller. It changes everything: We build a book of interests so we are ready to pull the trigger when another leg arrives to the party. Buyers and sellers don't need to be connected directly. A seller could be selling against 3 different buyers in a real OTC way. When the funds arrive on our corporate account/wallet we become the beneficial owner of the funds. This model is backed by strong legal opinion drafted by Pr. Bahar from Bär karrer, an expert in Switzerland, it was validated by VQF our SRO, and approved by the Finma. Sellers and buyers get comfort from the fact we are regulated. If the deal fails we return the fiat. similarly if a buyers vanishes, we return the crypto to the seller. Funds transit and clear properly through a Swiss Private Bank. We give a dedicated IBAN for each buyer, even though all your funds are belong to us, during the deal. it's all agreed by contract. From a contractual viewpoint, we would simultaneously sign a purchase agreement with the seller and a sale agreement with the buyer, both contracts being subject to the delivery of the cryptocurrencies, respectively the official currencies (ie. If one party fails to deliver in the predetermined deadline, the deal would fail and any paid amount reimbursed) It's a mystery to me why Genesis or other OTC desks focus only on tranches between 50 and 100btc and do not facilitate large trades. My fee is the same, whether you trade 100btc through my company or 10k btc, I do not increase the spread. 1% for each block trade, 0.5% for each party. Quite cheap. Dealing as a direct counterparty to the seller and buyer gives us the power to close the trade swiftly, because when the end party asks "show me your funds, if you want me to believe you", we can go ahead and show proof of life of wallet or proof of funds. our limitation is we cannot park cash for more than 60 days because of Swiss laws on public deposit for non-bank. Fortunately such trade settle in less than 60days. If you fly to Geneva to do your kyc, chances are the other party will be in the next desk, doing the same. And we might probably be able to settle the next day.
here is our procedure:
  1. KYC checks and NDA signed with business introducers;
  2. Business introducers disclose the identities of the buyer and the seller;
  3. We perform a full KYC check on both buyer and seller, including a physical meeting with both parties preferably at our office in Geneva (or travel expenses at the charge of the party to be met);
  4. The seller provides us with (i) a wallet extract so the balance in BTC can be checked and address can be scanned through dedicated forensics services, (ii) a proof of ownership of the wallet (message signature or micro transaction), and (iii) any KYC/AML information required in relation to the origin of the BTC;
  5. The buyer provides us with a proof of funds and any KYC/AML information required in relation to the origin of the funds;
  6. Once the buyer and the seller are cleared, we discuss with both side to fix the price for the BTC and any other specific conditions;
  7. Simultaneously, we makes sure that (i) the seller has a bank account where the proceeds of the transaction can be transferred and (ii) the buyer has a wallet where the purchased BTC can be transferred;
  8. Purchase and sale agreement stating the number of BTC and the applicable price as well as fees are entered into between our company and the buyer, respectively the seller;
  9. Business Introducer Agreements are entered into between our company and the parties introducing the buyer and the seller;
  10. Transfer of the BTC to our company's wallet;
  11. Once the BTC are received, transfer of the payment to our companie’s bank account;
  12. Once the payment is received, transfer of the BTC to the buyer and the payment to the seller, less 1% of each leg if the deal involves business introducers, 0.5% if the deal is in direct.
Regarding the involvement of business introducers, we suggest them to sign a “Business Introducer Agreement” in relation to the leg of the deal they introduce to us. Specific conditions such as a premium or a discount negotiated by the business introducer will be reflected in the Purchase and/or the Sale Agreement between our company and the buyer respectively the seller so all the parties have a clear and transparent view of the deal. In this context, the business introducers’ cut will be adapted accordingly, our company will not claim any of the special discount/premium negotiated. we do not want to be greedy. We just want to make some trades and as said earlier, we prefer to deal in direct with end buyeseller.
Bulk trade of Altcoins. At the moment BTC/Fiat is the main market for block trades. However, I had a specific request for BTC/ETH for a very large amount and also IOTA/BTC. If you are looking to buy IOTA in bulk, please contact me on pm. As long as atomic swaps have not avanced to the next level, cross trades of Altcoins might be needed, and they should be operated through transit wallets, in a similar way as what I described above.
bottom line Again, it's a crazy long post. Sorry if I sounded doctrinal. I have spent countless hours on deals that went nowhere, and had a lot on my chest. Bitcoin is a fascinating market. Now that some deals are closing, and central banks are getting involved in crypto very discretly, I thought a clarification post was needed. If you are a large crypto holder, interested in such transactions, then please contact me on telegram or signal @swisspb. I will try to make it work for you. If you are Mtgox trustee, I know you dont care about where bitcoin is headed. you just want to get rid of it asap. Please consider cross trades, for the sake of all the people you are representing in this trade. They have suffered goxing 1.0 and don't want to be involved in goxing 2.0 just because you do not know how to execute!
Cheers, @ swisspb on telegram
submitted by Swissprivatebanker to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Order Book Indicator Secrets To Make Better Trades! - YouTube Trading Bitcoin - Order Book Look on $BTC Consolidation w/ Joe Saz Trading Bitcoin - Let's Get an Update of $BTC Order Book w/ Joe Saz Bitcoin breaking the 1 BTC / $500 USD dollar ceiling - time lapse of the live Mt.Gox order book MtGox Bitcoins to BTC e Bitcoins in 50 seconds

mtgox orderbook callbacks for nodejs. Contribute to cointhink/mtgox-orderbook development by creating an account on GitHub. limit my search to r/Bitcoin. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: subreddit:subreddit find submissions in "subreddit" author:username find submissions by "username" site:example.com find submissions from "example.com" url:text search for "text" in url selftext:text search for "text" in self post contents self:yes (or self:no) include (or exclude) self posts nsfw:yes (or ... A sell order was executed partially or in full when the price asked could be matched against a buy order that was at or above the ask amount. Orders that could not be matched immediately remain in the orderbook. Unfunded orders did not appear in the order book, but were automatically inserted when a deposit was credited. For example, Mt. Gox allowed the entry of a "buy" order even if the ... There is only one order book, the orders you see on one currency specific order book are also on all currency order books. There is a 2.5% currency conversion fee (added into the price). Eg. If someone buys in GBP from someone selling their BTC in EUR then the price of the EUR order appears in the order book as the price converted to GBP+2.5%. Deposits. Funds deposited with Mt.Gox must come ... Since Mt Gox is shut down for the market to cool off - where can you keep up with how the order book is changing? I understand that they are not... jump to content. my subreddits. edit subscriptions. popular-all-random-users AskReddit-news-funny-pics-gaming-aww -tifu-todayilearned-worldnews-mildlyinteresting-gifs-videos-Showerthoughts-movies-science-Jokes-OldSchoolCool-Music-TwoXChromosomes ...

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Order Book Indicator Secrets To Make Better Trades! - YouTube

3. Transferring 23.23 USD from MtGox to BTC-e via Bitinstant (1.49% fee). 4. Receiving 22.89 USD on BTC-e Bitcoin exchange. 5. Buying new Bitcoins for a price of 11.40 USD/BTC getting 2.0037 BTC ... Mt Gox still haunts us and is contributing to the panic sell-off happening in the market right now. Mix that with fear and uncertainty about what happens next for Bitcoin and you have the perfect ... Let me know what you thought about this training in the comments! 👇SUBSCRIBE TO JAMESON'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW!👇 http://bit.ly/jamesonbrandon #1 Way to Grow Y... Trading Bitcoin - Let's Get an Update of $BTC Order Book w/ Joe Saz 👉 Subscribe so you don't miss the next one: http://bit.ly/2QKVDdV Check below for even... Trading Bitcoin - Order Book Look on $BTC Consolidation w/ Joe Saz 👉 Subscribe so you don't miss the next one: http://bit.ly/2QKVDdV Check below for event...

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